Both are 6-8 feet tall and still growing
Top plant looks like a sambusca, which is part of the elderberry family, I have one in my garden.
its a lovely light and airy bush, with lovely clusters of black berries on , I'm not sure if you can eat them, anyway I like it because being black and at the back of my plot shows of other flowering plants in front of it.
you can chop it right down to the ground in autumn and up it comes again in spring with new fresh leaves.
sorry not sure about the other one but it looks a good plant for insects.
hope this is helpful
ive got a sambuca too, grows quick and flowers in around June (white). really nice plant.
I find it hard to tell a heliopsis from a helianthus,
Given the height I would suggest that the second one is Rudbeckia Herbstonne
I also think that they are rudbeckia's
Thankyou for your help.
The Sambucas hasnt ever flowered or had berries. Its growing fast this year though.
The yellow 'whateveritis' began flowering last week and will continue right to the end of Autumn.