Horse Manure in a Vegan Garden

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  • WelshonionWelshonion Posts: 3,114

    I'm a preserver too. The human body is very good at regulating salt, the effect of salt on blood pressure is only measurable with very specialized equipment under laboratory conditions.  Beware of scare stories in the Press.  Take them with a pinch of salt!

    Gily if you want contemporary accounts of the privations of the poor in the 19C I suggest you read Thomas Hardy or Dickens.  It wasn't so rosy then.

    Regarding antibiotics. There are very strict rules about antibiotics and animals for human consumption in the UK.  There are very strict withdrawal periods.  Very strict.  The real danger with antibiotics is humans who don't follow the full course prescribed, because they feel better.  Words fail me.

  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Central Norfolk UKPosts: 56,654

    Fine to preserve using salt and use occasionally - but I can remember winters when I was a child when we had salted virtually runner beans every day for what seemed like weeks - and a sort of sauerkraut too, and then of course there was the bacon and ham, all salted.  Then electricity came to the village and Ma bought a freezer image

     I'm not taking any notice of scare stories in the press, but I do take notice of my GP who prescribes my blood pressure medication image

    Another good read with authentic accounts of food for the rich and poor are Parson Woodforde's Diaries.

    “I am not lost, for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost.” Winnie the Pooh







  • PalaisglidePalaisglide Posts: 3,414

    I do not think we should gang up on Gily Webber, we all make choices to suit our selves it is called freedom.
    I lived through a time when kids from poor families were lucky to have one hot meal a week, Fathers out of work Mothers not allowed to work, no school meals but they did get free milk.
    My family were small holders and farmers so I never knew hunger or want and yes we clamped Veg bottled Jammed and preserved besides salting down our own Bacon and Hams, the poor families did not have that choice.
    Even today I see people who had rickets as kids, lack of vitamins, TB Measles and other diseases rampant and all in my time, at least some of that has gone though not for good it seems.
    Having eaten a good breakfast all my life and the first 18 years that would be porridge bacon egg fried bread tomato's mushrooms, not all together but what was in season and even eggs were seasonal so we put them down in Isinglass to preserve them. I must have eaten many salted pigs in my time, blood pressure normal for my age and the odd touch of gout, never touched port wine, smoked, or stuffed sweet stuff down my neck, so what does any of it prove. Nothing apart from we are all different with differing needs, all my relatives went into their 80-90's grandad was 97 and they lived through times of real hardship, is it genes or the way we live or a bit of both.
    Not for me to know but I do know Gily can live any way she wishes though I would give this advice, my way of living has come from long experience and that experience also tell me to take what I read with a pinch of salt, a big pinch at that, having seen all the fads and fashions in diet come and go, the yo-yo ups and downs of so called experts some of whom went to an early grave, I smile and do it my way, so should you Gily.

    Frank
    PS, my Sons horses do not get antibiotics, ever.

  • Glad to hear it Frank.  Also glad to hear animals are removed from food chain when anti-biotics are used therapeutically - does this include manure as well?

    For the record - I am more interested in balance.  Whatever we eat we are always looking for balance.  If we don't find balance we get ill.

  • horses are vegetarian.image

  • ObelixxObelixx Vendée, Western FrancePosts: 18,191

    I thought the whole basis of veganism was an ethical decision not to harm animals in order to feed humans so no eggs, cheese (cos it needs rennet from dead animals), meat, fish or poultry.

    Macrobiotic diets have often been cited as cures for cancer and they involve whole foods - grains, fruits, nuts and veggies - organically raised and, like vegans, no animal, fish or poulrty products.

    Animal manure is acceptable for both of these diet groups but I suspect the serious followers would prefer plant based fertilisers and soil conditioners such as seaweed and compost with no chemicals or medicines in it and that would rule out all animal manure, especially farmed animals such as poultry, cattle and pigs.

     

    "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
  • PalaisglidePalaisglide Posts: 3,414

    Gily, I do not know about looking for balance, that also depends on circumstances.
    I had two years in the desert where balance was impossible a lot of the time, those in Garrisons got a balanced diet but a lot of us only saw the garrison now and then.
    No fridges or cooling gear so from the first day dry rations and water rationed, bully beef could be drunk at noon not that we wanted to eat at noon, it was breakfast before sun up a snack around half ten and the main meal in the evening when the sun went down.If we had become ill it would have been a very long run on a Jeep stretcher to a first aid unit. I was never ill and if you were then it was self service or the tender mercy of the soldier medic with his small pack of Aspro and Bismuth, just do not get ill was the only way.
    We saw people who's diet was flat bread and a little vegetable, meat was the odd goat or camel and that was rare indeed, kids were lucky to reach their teens and it was not by choice, they had none.
    I suppose we can pontificate on what is good or not we do have that choice as we do about what we eat although that choice was not there for many when I was young.
    Flowering Rose horses may be vegetarian but it does not stop them trying to take a bite out of you when you are not watching, my way was a fast hard punch on the muzzle, they did not try it twice.

    Frank.

  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Central Norfolk UKPosts: 56,654

    Not intending to gang up on anyone - far from it - but misinformation if not corrected can be promulgated as truth and end up scaring and scarring.image

    “I am not lost, for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost.” Winnie the Pooh







  • mmmmm.....obelixx FYI macrobiotic diet is not a vegan diet.    I "should know" as I am a macrobiotic counsellor. Thanks Dovefromabove for your truths. To clarify, there is no "macrobiotic diet" in the sense of one diet suits all but rather eating macrobiotically is an intuitive process in which we make a journey of self-discovery, to find our authentic self.  For this reason some people practising macrobioitcs also happen to be vegan.  Also, we do not necessarily prefer no manure - horses are vegan - but the issue would be the integrity of the manure, itself. A natural product is very important in our belief system - we would want to be assured that the animal has a natural life, as far as possible - so a horse which grazes on grass would be the "ideal" (rather than eating GMO feed or some might argue, organic feed, given antibioitcs etc).  I am writing to the featured gardener to find out how he sources his manure & what questions he asks about it. He uses 2 tons per year.

  • PalaisglidePalaisglide Posts: 3,414

    Well Gily, you certainly caused a discussion although you have now gone beyond me, Macro is something on my camera and that is it.
    As a lad I lived in a place that had soil toilets so surely the answer for someone worried about manure is use their own, everything out of those earth toilets in the village went onto the land, nothing wasted and the Veg tasted just as good. I went back last year for the first time since I left, those gardens were still as productive and the Veg still as large although I would assume they now have better toilets, therefore different arrangements for fertilisation?
    An intuitive process you say "hm" my intuition is eat to live not live to eat and it has got me this far!!!

    Frank.

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