Should I cut the tall stems to the same height as the rest of the bush and will they flower if I do that?
Yes, and Yes.. if you don't manage them they will grow very large. I've had all those except Darcey Bussell, but I'm not surprised that one has also grown larger than anticipated. None of them need supporting if kept pruned, they will develop into open shrub form simply by pruning back those long lengths... I found Oranges n Lemons black spot prone, unruly and thorny, forming an ungainly habit, so controlling it's wayward habit I think would be important in smaller gardens..
Both Graham Thomas and Westerland are easily controlled as shrubs.. they send out these longs shoots usually after the main flush is over.. Peter Beales gives shrub estimates for Westerland. In their garden they grow it both ways... here are pics.. ..grown as an informal hedge.. upright, freestanding.. ..this one is around 15 feet tall with a red climber for company.. too much for me.. ..in shrub form at Mannington, Norfolk..
..most yellow Austins are derived from Graham Thomas I suspect, as they show the same tendencies.. this is 'Bring Me Sunshine' and as you can see I have one of these skyward shoots.. I could prune this back to shrub height, but I may want to grow it on an obelisk as a short climber so I may keep this growth, I also like the foliage and those deep red thorns with pale tips..
@WhereAreMySecateurs You asked about Hybrid Teas and lateral growth?... No, you wouldn't normally do that with this type of rose, because they flower at the tips, the growth is usually too stiff, and normal pruning back to a lower shoot is all that's required.. Saying that, there are some modern HT's that look like shrub rose these days, and benefit from less rigid pruning regimes.. 'Dee-Lish' is one of them, 'Chandos Beauty' is another, these can be left to grow much larger, even so, they still require HT pruning back to a bud, they are not conducive to pegging or training laterals..
Thank you @Marlorena. I bought Oranges and Lemons because we saw it at Hever Castle and OH admired it, but it was quite tidy and under control there. I've been to Peter Beales several times and I've seen Westerland as a shrub and as a climber. I didn't know if the rootstock was the same because the Westerland I bought there was labelled as a shrub. OH really likes orange roses. I do too, but I think my taste is really more pink.
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Interesting that training some roses laterally wouldn’t work and they wouldn’t break shoots along a lateral octopus cane. You would think the hormonal pattern would revert. I imagined that all woody plants would swing that way. I guess not.
Thanks heaps, @Marlorena, for your answer. I'll remember that about Dee-Lish and Chandos Beauty. Yes, @Fire, it's odd- or perhaps not, given it's a moot point about bending HTs. I just tested my Rachel / Augusta Luise HT and could only move a branch less than 1/4 inch before it felt as if it were going to snap.
Sorry @Busy-lizzie for muscling in on your thread a tiny bit. It's a very interesting topic.
You’re welcome, you can do what you want with them of course, it’s all in the pruning and training rather than them being different roses or on different root stock. I have two other Austins with climbing tendencies that I have struggled to keep in shrub form for years, despite rigorous pruning - Gertrude Jekyll and Golden Celebration - but they constantly defy my efforts! I wish I had more space to let them do their thing. I got rid of Graham for different reasons though..
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None of them need supporting if kept pruned, they will develop into open shrub form simply by pruning back those long lengths... I found Oranges n Lemons black spot prone, unruly and thorny, forming an ungainly habit, so controlling it's wayward habit I think would be important in smaller gardens..
Both Graham Thomas and Westerland are easily controlled as shrubs.. they send out these longs shoots usually after the main flush is over..
Peter Beales gives shrub estimates for Westerland.
In their garden they grow it both ways... here are pics..
..grown as an informal hedge.. upright, freestanding..
..this one is around 15 feet tall with a red climber for company.. too much for me..
..in shrub form at Mannington, Norfolk..
..most yellow Austins are derived from Graham Thomas I suspect, as they show the same tendencies.. this is 'Bring Me Sunshine' and as you can see I have one of these skyward shoots.. I could prune this back to shrub height, but I may want to grow it on an obelisk as a short climber so I may keep this growth, I also like the foliage and those deep red thorns with pale tips..
You asked about Hybrid Teas and lateral growth?... No, you wouldn't normally do that with this type of rose, because they flower at the tips, the growth is usually too stiff, and normal pruning back to a lower shoot is all that's required..
Saying that, there are some modern HT's that look like shrub rose these days, and benefit from less rigid pruning regimes.. 'Dee-Lish' is one of them, 'Chandos Beauty' is another, these can be left to grow much larger, even so, they still require HT pruning back to a bud, they are not conducive to pegging or training laterals..
I bought Oranges and Lemons because we saw it at Hever Castle and OH admired it, but it was quite tidy and under control there. I've been to Peter Beales several times and I've seen Westerland as a shrub and as a climber. I didn't know if the rootstock was the same because the Westerland I bought there was labelled as a shrub. OH really likes orange roses. I do too, but I think my taste is really more pink.
Sorry @Busy-lizzie for muscling in on your thread a tiny bit. It's a very interesting topic.