Todays controversy

punkdoc

It is with some trepidation that I ask this question, but I am interested to see whether my view is the norm.
What do we think about a trans gender woman competing in the Olympic weightlifting today?

Hostafan1

punkdoc said:

It is with some trepidation that I ask this question, but I am interested to see whether my view is the norm.
What do we think about a trans gender woman competing in the Olympic weightlifting today?

fine if they're only competing with other transgender women

B3

I believe that in boxing, there are different categories for different weights.
Maybe they should extend the gender categories. I assume there are tests which could be done to assess which category would be appropriate.

JennyJ

Dunno. Have they had hormone treatment? Does the hormone treatment reduce testosterone and muscle mass to more typically female levels? And is it a sport where they ban women with naturally high testosterone levels? 

steveTu

I was talking to my son about all 'this' at the weekend. I don't know how you ever balance it out as I'm not sure enough is known about genetics and then overall physiology at the moment.

If you looked at the female finalists for the 100m and the male equivalent, there's an obvious difference. Even accounting for the difference in size, the males seem to 'bulk' up more for power (it's a balance then between the extra muscle mass weight, and the additional power/speed they attain). So do males achieve more muscle mass easier than women? Do men have more lung capacity - so get oxygen to the muscles easier/faster and in turn then  can carry the weight easier... longer reach? faster twitch muscle response?...are they generally taller (so potentially longer stride)...than women? Do women recover faster, endure for longer - but do they tire faster in short, 100%  exerted effort bursts? So many questions that are already areas for research.

Whether people like it or not, there is a difference in being male or female - both physically and mentally - so how do you handle males who identify as female and females who identify as male? Absolute minefield IMO.

So in answer to your question @punkdoc, no idea! Especially as how you identify is a mental thing that no one can quantify. But what is really to be a man/woman mentally? And how can you then ever know if a transgender person is wholly one or the other - or more realistically, where on the scale each person fits - as none of us are wholly one thing or another are we?

B3

Maybe they could categorise them by testosterone level rather than gender, then.

Dovefromabove

But even if their current testosterone level is within the parameters, what about the growth which occurred before their testosterone levels were amended ?  

It is an absolute minefield ... and I'm sure there'll be changes in the way this is handled over the years ... and it is going to be tricky for those who make the decisions to take all the athletes along this journey. 

I'm sure there'll be some inequalities and unfairness along the way, no matter how hard folk try to get it right .... we should try iron out the unfairness when we can ... but life isn't fair and never will be. 

pansyface

Maybe there should be a Transgender Games.

I can’t see how all that bone density, muscle mass and muscle attachment to bone can be brought down to a natural female level.

Nanny Beach

 I'm sure you will confirm Punkdoc in general men are stronger, bigger muscle mass, bones,than me at 5.1in and a size 10.By going through puberty hormones levels would be pretty high. Several cases of "born males" identify female,with neither hormone blockers or gender re assignment surgery, allowed to be incarcerated in female prisons where they have sexually assaulted female prisoners

Hostafan1

I can't remember the S African athlete who  wore  " blades " and competed against  so called " able bodied " athletes. 
I wasn't entirely sure about that either.

punkdoc

Oscar Pistorius, now in jail for murdering his wife