Tree Id / Leaf problem id please

Desi_in_London

Hi all , I have two of these trees in my back courtyard ( in a bed in the ground). I have always been told they are some kind of bay , but the leaves don't smell like bay ( i do have a laurus nobilis and these leaves are both more serrated and less elongated than the "sweet bay" leaves ). They are growing into each other a bit in the canopy ( branching of trunk occurs about 6 feet up from ground ) and seem to have brown / dark rusty slightly furry marks on the underside. Attached are pictures of a twig bearing leaves on  ( front and back ) , and a terrible picture of me attempting to show the habit of the tree. I don't recall really having ever seen any (significant) flowers on them. I would appreciate any help, I do have another 3 seedlings/ random strappy leaved plants to ask id on but I will do that separately to avoid any confusion. Thanks very much!

Borderline

They are Quercus Ilex, Holm Oak. The markings on the leaves are most likely leaf miner damage which is quite common with this tree. Because it is more or less evergreen, new leaves will replace the ones that drop off and it does not affect the tree.

Desi_in_London

Thank you very much @Borderline, I apprecate it