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Preparing ground for new Garden

My wife and I have just tore out a garden that was about 60 years old, no food, just plants/bushes. We are currently now working on getting rid of the root systems before winter. To my surprise the roots go down deeper than I imagined. I've dug down 3' and still cant find the end of the roots. Am I out of my mind to dig down that far and be anal in removing the roots in their entirety? Our future plan is to grow a vegetable and fruit garden. The old "demo'd" garden's footprint is quite large, so some of it will be garden, the rest will be grass. My wife and I are very new to growing so any help is appreciated. Any articles or books to recommend are also welcome. Thanks. Also FYI, the soil type is here is dense and moist.
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  • AnniDAnniD Posts: 12,568
    Could you supply a bit more information please? 
    Do you know what the old shrubs were? I suspect the soil will be pretty poor so will need lots of manure/compost digging in.
    Is it sunny or shady ? Some photos might be of help.
    Whereabouts are you ? (just a general location will do if you don't want to be too specific).
    Finally, welcome to the forum  :)

  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    Unless you know what and where the roots have come from, it's impossible to be specific. Some may be coming from a neighbour for example, or they may be nothing to worry about, as they won't always grow into anything if they've been severed from the main shrubs.  :)
    As @AnniD says, further info and photos would help  :)
    Adding lots of organic matter is the best way of improving the soil though, and this is a good time to do it, as it will work in over the winter, ready for organising in spring.
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Posts: 88,139
    As well as shrubs, are there any trees in the vicinity? Tree roots spread a very long way. 

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • treehugger80treehugger80 Posts: 1,923
    if you've got the base of the shrub out there's no need to chase the roots of most of them as you've removed the growing point, they wont come back, there's only exceptions like sumac that can come back from roots
  • NewBoy2NewBoy2 Posts: 1,813
    Whilst you were digging to Aussie did you find a layer of clay or large stones or any brick structures as this may give you a sense of what the area was used for over the last 60 years.

    1960 to 2020 is a long time.

    Welcome  B)  
    Everyone is just trying to be Happy.....So lets help Them.
  • edhelkaedhelka Posts: 2,351
    As others said, it depends on what the roots are.
    Shrubs roots usually aren't a problem (with some exceptions but not many). Remove the stumps and the thickest roots, or enough to make the ground workable. The rest will decompose and add nutrients to your soil.
    Roots of some perennials are also harmless. But the worst perennial weeds can often regrow from tiny pieces of roots.
    So before hacking anything down, you need to assess what's there and learn to recognize problematic species and their roots. Assuming this wasn't done, do you have any photos of how it looked before cutting back/strimming?
  • @AnniD - I live in Upstate New York. The area gets sun for majority of the day. Late afternoon the sun is to low, so its shaded.

    @Fairygirl & @Dovefromabove - As you can see in the photos, I tore out the plants above ground and started digging around their bases. So I'm 100% positive the roots I'm talking about are of the old garden. They are not the 2 pine trees you can see to the left in the picture. Those are going to be dropped soon although. What kind of organic material would you recommend? That's what I'm trying to do is prep the ground now for this coming spring. 

    @NewBoy2 - My house used to be a sawmill in the early 1800's. Converted to a house in the late 1800's. My wife's father grew up in this house. So it has a lot of history and character. We've been renovating it room by room over the past 6 years. Now its time for some love on the outside. The perimeter of the old garden was surrounded by large stones. You can see some of them in the picture if you zoom in. Those were the largest ones. I removed the rest of them, and let me tell you, there was A LOT of stones.

    @edhelka - You are correct, that was not done before the project began. I started the chainsaw and started hacking. You can see the old plants in the picture. Not sure if that helps, as I have no idea what any of them were. Can you tell me if I'm crazy on the following 2 ideas I've pondered? Again, I'm a novice and have very uneducated ideas; but ideas none the less:
    1. What about putting weed killer in the ground to make sure the roots die off.
    2. Even thought about renting a backhoe and digging them all up. Figure it would help till the land, remove the roots, and I have another project for the backhoe as well.

    To all - Just going to say your responses have been awesome, thanks for the support, this seems like I chose a good site w/ good people to ask these questions. Thanks again. 





  • BenCottoBenCotto Posts: 4,712
    edited October 2020
    To save others looking it up, a backhoe is a JCB digger.

    OP, I think you need to step back and draw some plans. It seems like a big plot with plenty of room to grow flowers, fruit, vegetables and have seating areas as well. 

    That patch of shrubs and the trees must have been annoying the hell out of you to attack it with such vengeance but, probably, they are gone now. If you have removed the biggest of the roots I think it is unlikely the shrubs will come back so I would not bother with a backhoe/digger and definitely would not use weed killer. If you moved to the UK I think you would be astonished at how strongly many gardeners here feel about using chemicals in their gardens. We much prefer using organic methods.

    Anyway, you have cleared those shrubs but haven’t said why. What do you intend to grow there now? Ideally you should cover the soil over winter with a layer of compost or manure about 4” deep and let the worms incorporate it into the top soil. The covering will also suppress the germination of weed seeds that will inevitably start to grow when soil is disturbed. Ones that do sprout should be cleared with a simple hand hoe as soon as they grow.

    Between now and the planting season around April/May draw up plans for what you want to grow and where. What do you intend to do with all the stones you removed? It sounds like it took a great deal of effort so I assume there was an equal amount of effort in putting them there in the first place. Why were they put there to begin with, and why do you not want them there now? If they were demarcating the boundary of the property do you intend to replace them with a fence or hedge?

    When you have sketched out your plan it might be beneficial to photograph it and put it on this forum for comments. A scale and a compass orientation are critical. Also add lots of annotations and footnotes. I would want to know where the trees are, what is beyond your garden’s boundaries, what is the pH of your soil, where you are thinking of planting flower and shrub borders, where the vegetable garden is, the location of sheds and greenhouses, where you might create paths, the state and extent of your lawn, the location of existing or intended outside seating and dining areas, the positioning of the compost bins and finally where is your house in relation to the entire plot?

    You have been in the house for six years, you say. My advice for working on the garden is simple: slow down and give more clarity to what you are trying to achieve.
    Rutland, England
  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Posts: 88,139
    I don’t understand why you think there are no tree roots there ... we have a tree 40ft from our houses... the network of finer roots spreads through the border, under and around a pond, under the lawn and are within a few of feet of the house. 

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • AnniDAnniD Posts: 12,568
    There are times when l'd quite like to take a JCB (backhoe) to my garden, level it off and start again,  so l am in a bit envious in a way. 
    I'm not an expert vegetable grower, but l think if you were thinking of growing veg under the tree canopy it's not really a suitable location. I'm also not a weather expert when it comes to upstate New York, but l think there might be some extremes of weather? 
    @BenCotto is right, among the many good points that he makes, the best thing to do is make a plan. As you've lived there for quite a while,  you'll have a good idea of how the garden "works", if you know what l mean. It looks like a massive plot which gives you so many options. 
    It said quite a lot on this forum,  the best thing to do is take your time and work things out. The garden has been there a long time, a few more months won't do any harm  :)
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