Help identifying g clematis

skbarker63

Hello again my new mature garden is giving me many plant identification challenges today its clematis

The first is a pale lilace double flowered about 10" flowers

The second is a deep magenta about 6"" diameter.  Many thanks 

HumbleBee

I'm not a clematis expert but the deep magenta one looks like my Clematis Niobe (pic below)

skbarker63

Thanks

yorkshirerose

Your double Clematis looks like C. Vyvyann Pennell. It can flower twice, first time as a double flower and later as a single one.
https://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/92572/Clematis-Vyvyan-Pennell-(EL)/Details

Stevedaylilly

Hi 
The red one could possibly be Clematis Westerplate as I have that growing in my garden. It’s PG 2 and I have mine growing throught a yellow leaved Choisya