Help sourcing a small quantity of weed killer...

NeoNewLawn

Some of you may have spotted my other thread here sharing the joys and frustrations with turning a garden wasteland into a lawn. It's been frustrating and annoying and enjoyable and rewarding depending on whichever day you caught me on.

I have hit a bit of a snag with what turns out to be extremely fertile soil. Rather astoundingly I had germination and grass shoots above ground in only 4 days after seeding with grass and now on day 19 almost complete thick cover of the entire area. However, with all this fantastic preparation and work has come an extraordinary curse of weeds. I won't dwell on it too much other than to say for a combination of what I was told to do along with environmental factors the weeds got a bit of a head start and as such have seriously choked the new lawn in some areas. 

I have consulted with lawn experts (who I am being guided by) who have suggested I use a product specifically formulated for new lawns, after they have tillered. My lawn is certainly ready if this is the criteria and so I now need to find a small quantity of only 19ml which is enough to do my ~200sq/m of lawn at the appropriate dosage. 

However, a 2 litre bottle of Holster XL is a little over £100. While I have really enjoyed being cost sensitive this would make it the single biggest cost to date, including the purchase of a 2nd hand cylinder mower that I repaired and brought back to life in my garage!!

I just cannot justify it and would ask anyone reading this if they can suggest how I might be able to get my hands on just 20ml of Holster XL? I don't expect anything for free I am happy to buy it without pause but I just can't get my head around buying 99% more than I actually need.

Suggestions please? 

Loxley

Can you share some images of the problem areas of your lawn? Usually weed seedlings would be kept in bay through mowing.

NeoNewLawn

WillDB said:

Can you share some images of the problem areas of your lawn? Usually weed seedlings would be kept in bay through mowing.

Hi @WillDB and thank you, yes of course. 

So this is what it looks like stood back slightly, you can clearly make out the areas where the weeds are dominant, by the browning effect in the surface.


Here is how it looks closer up, the area (probably 50-60% of the entire lawn area!) is evenly covered in what is at least as much weed as there is grass.

Even closer up, though this was taken about 4 days ago it's worse in some areas. 


I can pop outside and take more pics of you need me to if anything is unclear. 

BenCotto

Does this link give you a possible alternative way of proceeding?

https://www.lawnsmith.co.uk/topic/lawn-weed-control/my-weed-killer-doesnt-work

NeoNewLawn

Hi @WillDB so I decided to go out and take more pics anyway, to better try to show you what it looks like. These were taken in the last minute:
Quite clearly large areas have been overwhelmed by young, aggressive weeds. They are too short to mow (knock back) and several sources advise hitting them with a treatment while they are still in the young phase, hence my mission this morning for appropriate treatment. 


What is not so easy to see, is even in the areas where the grass is doing REALLY well, if you simply move the grass aside, under the surface (lurking) are even more, so they are everywhere!

NeoNewLawn

BenCotto said:

Does this link give you a possible alternative way of proceeding?

https://www.lawnsmith.co.uk/topic/lawn-weed-control/my-weed-killer-doesnt-work

Hi @BenCotto and thanks for this link. 
I originally treated the area twice (successfully) before seeding with a household treatment and that was a success.
The link makes a great point about the active ingredients being identical, only the concentrate being different. 
In my original thread I actually stumbled across a bit of a problem with Weedol, as the new packaging and ingredients seem to have changed and are quite different to the manufacturers website! So this is a direction I was headed with some enthusiasm until yesterday when the differences became evident. Hence turning to a professional company for advice.

I may try to hunt around for the original formulation of Weedol then, that's an excellent point thank you for making it, so if anyone has an old bottle in a shed somewhere..!

Loxley

The weed seedlings look pretty small and shallow rooted. Could you try very lightly dragging a springtine rake across the surface? I wouldn't sweat it personally. At the rate your grass is growing you aren't far off your first mow, at which point the annual weeds will be controlled, and you will be able to see the perennial weeds which need spot removal. Yes there'll be a period when the lawn isn't 'perfect' but I think the grass will thicken out once the weeds start to be brought under control. It just seems less risky than applying herbicides and less bother, to me.

Hostafan1

I'd suggest if your got a garden roller and rolled that grass, it'd thicken up at the base and choke out the weeds. If you can't get a roller, maybe lay a scaffold board on it and walk on it, failing that just walk rather methodically all over " to induce tillering"

NeoNewLawn

WillDB said:

The weed seedlings look pretty small and shallow rooted. Could you try very lightly dragging a springtine rake across the surface? I wouldn't sweat it personally. At the rate your grass is growing you aren't far off your first mow, at which point the annual weeds will be controlled, and you will be able to see the perennial weeds which need spot removal. Yes there'll be a period when the lawn isn't 'perfect' but I think the grass will thicken out once the weeds start to be brought under control. It just seems less risky than applying herbicides and less bother, to me.

I tried that...and only succeeded in ripping off the leaves of the weeds and leaving the roots intact in the soil... 

You make a fair point about just going with it, once the mowing starts the process of weed control can continue. My only concern and it's a genuine one, is the quantity of weeds. I clearly have good soil and prep (I did 2 Glyphosate treatments and am starting to feel like a bad person for just going with the 'nuke' option, the Glyphosate really works!) but its evident that there is a lot more weed dormant in the soil. I would just be in a vicious cycle and I want to give the grass a bit of a shot at it.

I'm going to be leaving it to do it's thing for a few days anyway, I just wanted to get the jump on products in the meantime. 

NeoNewLawn

Rik56 said:

Suck it n see. Your grass may choke out the weeds. Just let the grass establish first - you can deal the weeds later. Plus regular mowing will weaken the weeds somewhat..hopefully.

Ha hi @Rik56 ...the only trouble with that is there are a LOT of weeds! I would like something that resembles a lawn in a few months!

A lot of this is driven by a desire to do what is possible, while at the same time accepting there's nothing to do and having a beer. I'm quite good at the latter. But if there is something I can do now, which will save graft in a year, then I probably need to think about it now. 

If I can change your 'hopefully' to a 'probably' or even a 'definitely' then that would be good. 

NeoNewLawn

Hostafan1 said:

I'd suggest if your got a garden roller and rolled that grass, it'd thicken up at the base and choke out the weeds. If you can't get a roller, maybe lay a scaffold board on it and walk on it, failing that just walk rather methodically all over " to induce tillering"

Hi @Hostafan1
I took a few pics for you to look at, at best there are 4-5 'tillers' on each and at worst 2. So it's growing well enough and will accept a treatment. 



I only come in here because I don't have the answer of course. And while something is really obvious to someone with years of lawn experience in the UK, I just don't have any. I had never heard of scarifying before this, and I have NEVER seen moss grow in a lawn. Ever. So I guess I am trying to learn against my limited knowledge and then apply a little common sense. 

But at the same time I don't want to miss an opportunity to deal with something now, even if it takes a little time and effort (you have seen what this looked like when I started - hard work isn't the problem) then I want to hear what that option is. 

It's amazing what you do learn while doing this stuff, it turns out the makers of Weedol have launchd a new range and on a call with their helpline this morning, the staff didn't know about the new product! In theory I might have applied according to the website, and killed my lawn!

So that's why I ask. If I can hit these little suckers with something today that stops them, then I want to know what that is. 

I'll give the lawn a roll this evening, I got an old concrete and steel one that really flattens things!