Environmental impact of the meat industry

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  • Shrinking VioletShrinking Violet Posts: 1,081
    edited November 2019
    OK - so this thread has morphed from the original critique of a programme on the TV to a general discussion about sustainability and our collective way of trying to mitigate the worst practices with reference to meat production.
    Firstly, I would suggest, is that we adopt a Punkdoc approach:  meat a few days a week, a vegetable based day (or two) and fish in between.  
    Just adapting our diets is not rocket science, and is easily achievable.  Farmers in the UK are not compromised, but the long-term benefits are huge.
    So - how to tackle the problems that are (1) America's gluttony and (2) rainforest degradation? 
    Surely we need cross-party, cross-nation, world-agreements to attack the main issues.  Doing nothing is not an option (and by the way I am not an adherent of or a member of Extinction Rebellion.  But they have a point).
  • Allotment BoyAllotment Boy North London Posts: 2,261
    I am  certainly not against us all taking some action to mitigate human kinds depletion of the planet. I am just against the clouding of what purports to be objective scientific discussion with over emotive language. Phrases like "this makes me sick to my stomach" by expressed by LB in that programme are unnecessary. I have said before I have some experience when an ex boss of mine was subjected to trial by TV  (a Panorama programme). My old boss and another eminent scientist were made to look at loggerheads  when we knew this was not the case.  Only recently he told us that  when they played the responses shown were sometimes to different questions, but made to look, by artful editing that they were answering the same question.   We later found out the producer had a brother directly affected by the issue at hand so what was supposed to be a factual programme was manipulated by the producer to reflect her own bias.
    I strongly feel this programme was made to show a particular point of view, which clouds an otherwise important issue that it is the industrialisation of food production and farming that is most detrimental. Just as much forest is being cleared to produce soya beans & palm oil as for beef production, neither is right.
    AB Still learning

  • steveTusteveTu Posts: 364
    So you live a totally basic life without any excesses. OK fine. But that isn't the case for millions of people - and I'm 'poor' but still have excesses. And it's not a case of generalising - as stats are just that - but taking figures that represent what people (on average) do - as in https://www.magnet.co.uk/advice-inspiration/blog/2018/February/food-waste-around-the-world/.
    Now, you may be under of the 70+kg of wasted food per person per annum (I like to think I am), BUT, then someone else is in excess of that limit. The point being made (surely) is that the west 'in general' lives in excess. So curbing the excess then stops the need for more drastic action. Does that not make sense?
    Then the excess in wasted food - and 'stuff' bought that needed fuel and water to be made IS the issue. BUT I repeat - and it's not something that 1 person can do - if you attack the basics of capitalism by NOT buying (or else what else are you spending your salary on? Holidays, bigger house, bigger car, better education...better(?) food) then the system fails. So the point being is that it is the system that encourages the excess. You see it with the government doing a simple thing like making two car reg dates per year - to encourages sales of new cars as people love having 'new' reg to show off. That is what capitalism is. Most businesses in retail wouldn't survive without those periodic binge sales periods like Christmas - or new car reg dates.

    UK - South Coast Retirement Campus (East)
  • steveTu said:
    So you live a totally basic life without any excesses. OK fine. But that isn't the case for millions of people - and I'm 'poor' but still have excesses. And it's not a case of generalising - as stats are just that - but taking figures that represent what people (on average) do - as in https://www.magnet.co.uk/advice-inspiration/blog/2018/February/food-waste-around-the-world/.


    Perhaps my fault for not making myself clear.  It is the constant use of " we all do it " when it is patently obvious that we all don't do it that I find a tad annoying and that is what I meant by "generalising".
    I'm not disputing the fact that food waste, excess consumerism, etc. occurs - it's common knowledge ( or at least it should be by now ).   :)

  • FireFire LondonPosts: 5,890
    "Just to be clear, I've read the Committee on Climate Change's report (yes, all of it). It doesn't anywhere suggest that we should all become vegetarian, not remotely."

    Yes, but @Fairygirl the problem is that you are talking rationally, with sense. People who want to blame and condemn and shout are not interested in facts and what is actually written any more than they want to take responsibility for their own actions. It's much easier and distracting to point fingers and bluster about bans and extremism and homeless sheep. I would advocate using the energy it takes to argue to, instead, to consider how we can contribute in practical terms.
  • LynLyn DevonPosts: 15,271
    Brilliant post @Fire absolutely agree with you. 
    Too many people listening to too much rubbish and thinking they're ‘greenies’
    theres only one true greenie and that’s a dead one. 
    Gardening on the wild, windy west side of Dartmoor. 

  • Rik56Rik56 WiganPosts: 312
    Lyn said:

    theres only one true greenie and that’s a dead one. 
    You've lost me there a bit...?
  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Central Norfolk UKPosts: 58,734
    I think @lyn means that they've completed their life cycle and are being 'recycled' in one way or another themselves.  It's tongue in cheek  ;)
    “I am not lost, for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost.” Winnie the Pooh







  • SkandiSkandi Northern DenmarkPosts: 667
    Slightly off topic, I got a new lodger a couple of months ago, she's all into environmental volunteering etc etc, and talks a good talk, but the amount of food she throws out, everything bought in small packs all individually plastic wrapped is well astounding, she'll bake something and for some reason decide to double or triple the recipe and of course most of it ends up in the bin. She also has three bathroom cupboards full of products in plastic bottles, and never puts anything into the recycling. we've found the amount going into the rubbish bin has doubled since she moved in.
    So it's amazing how people talk the talk but really don't walk the walk.

    I personally have around 3 acres of land that cannot grown crops, 2 acres are too wet for machinery in spring and autumn.  and the last acre is an old gravel pit so steep sides and thin soil. These are the places animals should go.
    There is also a more than slightly inconvenient issue with plant proteins in the north, namely we need a good summer to get beans mature enough to dry. the only one that does grow is peas.. Pease pudding anyone? Hot or cold new or old.. your choice.
  • LynLyn DevonPosts: 15,271
    It certainly is dove, but was said by someone famous at some time can’t remember who though,
    If you’re  on this planet your causing pollution, if you have more than two children your causing even more. 
    Gardening on the wild, windy west side of Dartmoor. 

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