Clematis and rose ID... and help

Hi all, would anyone be able to ID this rose and clematis and give me some advice on what to do with them please? 

The clematis usually flowers in spring but this year has given a second bloom of about 5 flowers. 

The rose I think is a climbing rose as when I tied the branches to the fence/wall this year making them horizontal the blooms have been amazing... 


Now my predicament is that they've been planted in the wrong place really. The two are tangled together and there isnt anything for the rose to climb up until its about 4ft high...


The two havent been pruned for 15+ years and they're annoying me but I don't really know the best approach to sort them. The clematis is all on the other side of the wall i.e my neighbour gets all the benefot of it and the rose just looks like its not really doing much until you get to the metal fence at the top! Same with the clematis, could I cut the clematis right back to the woody trunk and start again adding some vine eyes and wires on the wall so it'll cover the whole wall? 

I'd ideally like to keep them both but if I have to replace the rose with more of a shrub type then so be it, although I love its huge ruffled looking blooms.

Thanks in advance!

P. S. Please ignore the weeds, I have some serious weeding to do this week! 

Posts

  • ObelixxObelixx Vendée, Western FrancePosts: 17,044
    I suspect that clematis is one of the montanas in which case the best time to rune it is immediately after flowering finishes next spring.  Then you shoud be able to cut it back hard as long as you give it a god feed of slow release clematis, rose or tomato food and a drink.  If you're really fed up with it, take out all the top stuff that's hanging over the neighbour's side but leave some green foliage and shoots or you'll have no flowers next spring.   

    No idea which rose that is but it seems healthy enough.   The more you can train stems horizontally or diagonally the more blooms you will get so try and install some tensioned wires along the wall behind it using vine eyes (DIY store) to pass them thru and secure them.   Then just gently bend the stems down and tie them in loosely.  If you want to increase vigour and encourage new stems you could take out one or two of the oldest looking stems at the base next spring.  Feed as above.
    "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
  • Obelixx said:
    I suspect that clematis is one of the montanas in which case the best time to rune it is immediately after flowering finishes next spring.  Then you shoud be able to cut it back hard as long as you give it a god feed of slow release clematis, rose or tomato food and a drink.  If you're really fed up with it, take out all the top stuff that's hanging over the neighbour's side but leave some green foliage and shoots or you'll have no flowers next spring.   

    No idea which rose that is but it seems healthy enough.   The more you can train stems horizontally or diagonally the more blooms you will get so try and install some tensioned wires along the wall behind it using vine eyes (DIY store) to pass them thru and secure them.   Then just gently bend the stems down and tie them in loosely.  If you want to increase vigour and encourage new stems you could take out one or two of the oldest looking stems at the base next spring.  Feed as above.
    Yes I think you're right looks like a montana! Think I'll take a lot of the foliage and back leave some for flowers next year like you've said. Will it be ok to prune into that old woody trunk? There is a leaved stem growing from it about a foot above ground.

    Yeah the rose is in pretty good nick considering it hasn't been fed or pruned for about 20 years! My only problem is that the stems are so thick that I cant really train them. Plus I worry the two will just become tangled again trying to climb up the vine eyes and wires? Would I be best moving the rose elsewhere? Then again I don't really have anywhere else suitable for it as I have other things planned. 
  • ObelixxObelixx Vendée, Western FrancePosts: 17,044
    Just cut the clematis along the top of the wall for now as it needs those leaves to keep the roots fed thru photosynthesis.   Do a more drastic prune in spring after flowering.  You could gie it a handful of bonemeal in autumn to help the roots.

    If you do as I suggest and cut out one or two of the thckest, oldest rose stems at the base you will get new stems which you can train as they grow because the new growth will be soft enough.

    I think roses and clems are designed to be planted together and intertwine and set each other off.   Your clematis will finish flowering before the rose starts so no clash of colours.   However, by the time your clem finishes next spring th erose will be in full growth so I would recommend cutting the clematis stems as low as you think you need to and then letting it all wilt a week or so before trying to disentangle them.   That way you'll do less damage to the rose and its new growth.
    "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
  • Obelixx said:
    Just cut the clematis along the top of the wall for now as it needs those leaves to keep the roots fed thru photosynthesis.   Do a more drastic prune in spring after flowering.  You could gie it a handful of bonemeal in autumn to help the roots.

    If you do as I suggest and cut out one or two of the thckest, oldest rose stems at the base you will get new stems which you can train as they grow because the new growth will be soft enough.

    I think roses and clems are designed to be planted together and intertwine and set each other off.   Your clematis will finish flowering before the rose starts so no clash of colours.   However, by the time your clem finishes next spring th erose will be in full growth so I would recommend cutting the clematis stems as low as you think you need to and then letting it all wilt a week or so before trying to disentangle them.   That way you'll do less damage to the rose and its new growth.
    Thanks so much for your help. 

    So the plan is... 

    Cut a few annoying clematis vines this year. 
    Then next spring cut the clematis right back after flowering and cut some rose stems back to encourage growth. 

    Train the new rose and clematis growth onto vine eyes and wires. 

    Does that sound about right? 
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