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Clematis ID

Hi, I have two (10 years or so) old clematis. I am not sure which group they are in? The pic was taken at the end of May last year. The one on the left is in full bloom but the one on the right just had one two flowers (according to later pics). You can see that there is one light pink flower showing. They are both currently very tangled and unsightly. I want to trim back and re-train as the plants all though are a few years old have been insitu for only 2 years. Can anyone help ID them so I can suss out a pruning program? Thanks, Paul

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  • PerkiPerki Rossendale - LancashirePosts: 2,293
    Its quite difficult to ID clematis, group 2 normally have larger / showy flowers than group 1-3 so I would say they are group 2, no guaranteeing they are G2 . Have a look through taylors and others and see if they look similar. 
  • ObelixxObelixx Vendée, Western FrancePosts: 28,587
    You'd need a much better close-up of the flowers and foliage to get a certain ID.

    I don't much think it matters with those two.  I would treat them both as group 3s this year and prune them hard so they can produce fresh new growth all over.  They will then produce flowers on the new growth but maybe a bit later than usual.

    However, the main problem you have is that the pots are tiny and the trellis is quite restrictive too.   If you can, give them both a bigger pot - wider and deeper, because clematis produce thick, fleshy roots that like to go deep down and hate being hot and thirsty.  If that is not possible then you need to feed them generously every single spring with a good dollop of slow release clematis or tomato food and water weekly with liquid tomato food from spring to mid summer.  Stand more pots in front of them to keep their pots cool.

    If you can't increase the trellis space then doing an annual spring prune and the feeding will refresh them both each year and keep their growth in bounds.

    "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
  • AnniDAnniD South West UKPosts: 11,021
    The red one could be Rouge Cardinal, but to be honest it's almost impossible to tell. I agree with Obelixx, it would really be better to get them into the ground or bigger pots. They certainly look healthy enough in the photo, so l'm guessing that you have been feeding them.
  • Thanks all. I totally agree about the pots I may think about transferring them into another part of the garden to 'set them free' after the season and try something new in their place?

    I cover the base of the plant/top of the pot with crocks to keep them off the sun and keep the water in. I also feed them well so for the conditions they are in I think things are working?

    I think you are right AnniD re the Cardinal. They look very similar. I guess the only thing I can do is crop to a bud 30cm or so above the ground and monitor. I maybe back later in the year with better pics and hopefully a positive ID. Thanks for coming back to me though. cheers, Paul

  • ObelixxObelixx Vendée, Western FrancePosts: 28,587
    They'll do better in the ground, especially if you can improve the soil and remember to plant them 3 or 4 inches deeper than they were in their pots which encourages extra stems to form.   Water well before and after and feed every year.
    "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
  • pbffpbff Posts: 433
    If they flower in May, your Clematis are likely to be Group 2.
    The Royal Horticultural Society have an excellent page on pruning Group 2.
    https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=346

    It is hard to ID these for sure without close-up photos of the flowers (even then it could be tricky), but I would hazard a guess at 'Niobe' for the red one.

    You may find the site of the International Clematis Society helpful with identification 
    http://www.clematisinternational.com/index.html

    Hope this helps!  :)
    🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌
  • ObelixxObelixx Vendée, Western FrancePosts: 28,587
    This site  lists thousands and lets you search by tepal colour, anther colour, size and much more - http://www.clematis.hull.ac.uk/

    Group 2s are much easier to manage if treated as group 3s, especially in a year you  need to revive, renew or transplant them.
    "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
  • pbff said:
    If they flower in May, your Clematis are likely to be Group 2.
    The Royal Horticultural Society have an excellent page on pruning Group 2.
    https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=346

    It is hard to ID these for sure without close-up photos of the flowers (even then it could be tricky), but I would hazard a guess at 'Niobe' for the red one.

    You may find the site of the International Clematis Society helpful with identification 
    http://www.clematisinternational.com/index.html

    Hope this helps!  :)

    All very useful. Thanks :)
  • pbff said:
    If they flower in May, your Clematis are likely to be Group 2.
    The Royal Horticultural Society have an excellent page on pruning Group 2.
    https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=346

    It is hard to ID these for sure without close-up photos of the flowers (even then it could be tricky), but I would hazard a guess at 'Niobe' for the red one.

    You may find the site of the International Clematis Society helpful with identification 
    http://www.clematisinternational.com/index.html

    Hope this helps!  :)
    pbff said:
    If they flower in May, your Clematis are likely to be Group 2.
    The Royal Horticultural Society have an excellent page on pruning Group 2.
    https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=346

    It is hard to ID these for sure without close-up photos of the flowers (even then it could be tricky), but I would hazard a guess at 'Niobe' for the red one.

    You may find the site of the International Clematis Society helpful with identification 
    http://www.clematisinternational.com/index.html

    Hope this helps!  :)
    Brilliant! Thank you :)
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