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We don't need plastic pots - they need to be banned!

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  • Hostafan1Hostafan1 Posts: 34,860
    ZeroZero1 said:
    Hostafan1 said:
    It was  a perfectly reasonable question. How much extra would you pay to have an "eco friendly pot ?" as yet, nobody has said how much extra THEY would pay. 
    My point is,  it's all very well saying "THEY" should do something about it, but what are WE prepared to do? and how much extra are WE prepared to pay for it


    Yes Hostafan,
    It was a reasonable question, in common financial terms, but not from a wildlife perspective, there economics are not part of business practice, their welfare is irrellevent to the cost of pots

    Unless we're intent on bankrupting the British Nursery Industry we do have to work with them rather than against them. 
    Can I ask the question again, same plant, one plastic , one "eco" how much extra would you pay to save the wildlife?
    Devon.
  • raisingirlraisingirl Posts: 7,080
    Hostafan1 said:
    Unless we're intent on bankrupting the British Nursery Industry we do have to work with them rather than against them. 
    Can I ask the question again, same plant, one plastic , one "eco" how much extra would you pay to save the wildlife?
    I would pay what I believe it costs; whether it's 10%, 100% or 1000% isn't actually the issue. I'm willing to cut my cloth to suit - if I can only have a new plant by saving up all year, I'll do that. What I won't do is pay a huge premium for an 'eco' label which is either of dubious actual benefit or clearly a rip off to make money out of those who are trying to help the environment but whose only capacity to do so is in their wallet.

    At the moment we don't pay what it costs. Plastic is cheap to buy but vastly more expensive to dispose of safely - which is why it isn't disposed of safely. If the cost of the plastic pot was increased to the true cradle to grave cost, then the extra cost for a more sustainable, less polluting product would probably be far less, or even a saving.

    Which is the point. At the moment it's not a level playing field and the real costs are unknown. 

    So my question back to you Hosta - if you were charged what it actually costs to have a plastic pot, would you simply stop buying them?
    Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon

    “It's still magic even if you know how it's done.” 
  • Sorry Hosta that's hyperbole. No one needs to go bankrupt
  • I would be prepared to pay a bit more. For some people though, the plant is a rare treat in the first place and budgets cannot always be stretched.
    I do try in the supermarket to buy bananas and courgettes etc loose, but it is impossible to avoid prepacked for many items - the SM should provide paper bags instead of plastic ones though.
    My solution is to try and grow more and more of my own, that way I've used very little plastic packed veg this summer :)  
     
    I agree with @Lyn that the answer is not to buy, but how can we extend the range of plants in our gardens without buying some?
    I enjoy growing things from seed and do a lot, but some things are tricky and many people don't have the time, facilities or experience to do it. If they bought a few plants and became hooked on gardening, it might still help improve diversity in their home patch.

  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Posts: 87,864
    edited September 2018
    ZeroZero1 said:
    Sorry Hosta that's hyperbole. No one needs to go bankrupt
    If customers buy fewer plants than the nursery or garden centre need to sell in order to make enough profit to pay the overheads and keep the business afloat then that's what will happen ... that's a fact of economic life.

    Our local GC sells plants in coir pots ............... but they are more expensive than the plants sold by Homebase and B&Q down the road.

    Footfall at the GC has already dropped ...two businesses which share the site and rely on the GC having a good number of customers have already closed down before they became insolvent ... my OH was made redundant. 

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,442
    Hostafan1 said:
    ZeroZero1 said:
    Hostafan1 said:
    It was  a perfectly reasonable question. How much extra would you pay to have an "eco friendly pot ?" as yet, nobody has said how much extra THEY would pay. 
    My point is,  it's all very well saying "THEY" should do something about it, but what are WE prepared to do? and how much extra are WE prepared to pay for it


    Yes Hostafan,
    It was a reasonable question, in common financial terms, but not from a wildlife perspective, there economics are not part of business practice, their welfare is irrellevent to the cost of pots

    Unless we're intent on bankrupting the British Nursery Industry we do have to work with them rather than against them. 
    Can I ask the question again, same plant, one plastic , one "eco" how much extra would you pay to save the wildlife?
    It's the wrong question though. It shouldn't be a choice between plastic or non plastic. If plant pot plastic can only be recycled once or twice after being a plant pot then it's as useless as throwing them into landfill as we do now. The industry should keep using plastic as it's ideal for their purposes and they're set up for it but they need to stop passing the plastic on to the gardeners. They could use more robust plastics and keep reusing them in a return scheme from garden centres or something similar. The system is set up to keep using disposable plastics so it needs an industry shake up to change the way things are done rather than just a change of pot colour or material. It would need a disposable plastics tax I imagine as otherwise the playing field won't be level and people will just go for the cheapest option which will no doubt involve the easiest most wasteful route because people are people.
    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
  • Hostafan1Hostafan1 Posts: 34,860
    ZeroZero1 said:
    Sorry Hosta that's hyperbole. No one needs to go bankrupt
    If you get your way and plastic is banned, what will the industry use to replace it?
    Hostafan1 said:
    Unless we're intent on bankrupting the British Nursery Industry we do have to work with them rather than against them. 
    Can I ask the question again, same plant, one plastic , one "eco" how much extra would you pay to save the wildlife?
    I would pay what I believe it costs; whether it's 10%, 100% or 1000% isn't actually the issue. I'm willing to cut my cloth to suit - if I can only have a new plant by saving up all year, I'll do that. What I won't do is pay a huge premium for an 'eco' label which is either of dubious actual benefit or clearly a rip off to make money out of those who are trying to help the environment but whose only capacity to do so is in their wallet.

    At the moment we don't pay what it costs. Plastic is cheap to buy but vastly more expensive to dispose of safely - which is why it isn't disposed of safely. If the cost of the plastic pot was increased to the true cradle to grave cost, then the extra cost for a more sustainable, less polluting product would probably be far less, or even a saving.

    Which is the point. At the moment it's not a level playing field and the real costs are unknown. 

    So my question back to you Hosta - if you were charged what it actually costs to have a plastic pot, would you simply stop buying them?
    As you say, we don't know the cost so I can't give an answer.

    wild edges said:
    Hostafan1 said:
     They could use more robust plastics and keep reusing them in a return scheme from garden centres or something similar. The system is set up to keep using disposable plastics so it needs an industry shake up to change the way things are done rather than just a change of pot colour or material. It would need a disposable plastics tax I imagine as otherwise the playing field won't be level and people will just go for the cheapest option which will no doubt involve the easiest most wasteful route because people are people. 
    I think if they're simply "re-used" they'd then get into a whole new field of sterilising old plant pots etc. 

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a safe, affordable, environmentally acceptable  alternative. I'm merely "playing Devil's Advocate " to highlight the fact that , right now, there is no "silver bullet" solution. I'd suggest if one were available,now, it's be in place already.
    Devon.
  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,442
    Hostafan1 said:
    I think if they're simply "re-used" they'd then get into a whole new field of sterilising old plant pots etc. 

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a safe, affordable, environmentally acceptable  alternative. I'm merely "playing Devil's Advocate " to highlight the fact that , right now, there is no "silver bullet" solution. I'd suggest if one were available,now, it's be in place already.
    If there was an easy and cheap alternative I'm sure we'd already be using it. The problem with plastic plants pots is there's nothing we can do at consumer level to avoid them at the moment. It's not as simple as bringing your own carrier bag or coffee cup.

    The industry side can work out how to reuse the pots and I'm sure they already sterilise equipment. It needs someone at Wyevale scale to get on board to work out passing plants on to consumers in an acceptable way though.
    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
  • B3B3 Posts: 27,312
    The only answer, as I see it, if you are really concerned about plant pots from garden centres, is to grow from seed in your own pots.
    It would take more skill, definitely more patience and we would have to accept a more limited choice.
    In London. Keen but lazy.
  • Hostafan1Hostafan1 Posts: 34,860
    Coir has been mentioned, but with a figure of 500,000,000 pots and bedding trays used every year in the UK alone, I can't see that being a viable option. Imagine how much coir would have to be shipped half way across the planet every year to sustain that amount, and would there actually be enough coir to cope that demand?
    Assuming it's not just us Brits who want an alternative to plastic pots , I can't see coir being answer.
    Devon.
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