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Ziziphus Jujuba



  • Paul B3Paul B3 Posts: 2,912
    edited September 2018
    At long last someone else who recalls the 'cold-spell of 80/81' ; Yes , certainly some memories there !
    I remember the very 'dryness' of the cold though ; the snow was blowing around like icing sugar ; my car battery was frozen also .

    Dinah , you risked your life by the sound of it ;
    I think I'd had left the fat dog there , might have slowed the idiot driver down a bit .

    A real shame about the catastrophic loss of all those plants ; I don't think the nursery ever totally recovered .
    Before being illegal , plant importation was the norm then . Huge specimen cacti torn from their habitats , only to die a slow lingering death in some collectors g/house .
    In hindsight , it was awful really .
    Thankfully governments have clamped down on destroying their own flora (in some cases).
    Nollie , that is a stunning picture you posted . Could have done with some of that a few weeks ago ; a temporary respite from the infernal heatwave we had .
  • DinahDinah Posts: 278
    Yes, the dog might have even have caused the car to kind of bounce off it and land upside down in a snowdrift!

    It does sound terrible about all those plants dieing. I'm sure you were all hoping that this one, or that one would pull through, and then the post-freeze rot set in, or the crisp husk never showed green again - it is a cautionarry thought for anyone who might be thinking about starting an exotic garden that relies on artificial heating.

    I'm all for the tighter controles on plant imports. I think seed imports are more dependent on the supplier's and buyers intergrity. Those harvested from the wild are not good. Harvested wild can seriously deminish the survival rate in native areas where the best and strongest plants are to be found. It's a matter of finding out if seed sellers are gathering seed from the wild, or if they are cultivating seed at home or comercially. 

    On the other hand there are the native plants to consider, which may be threatened by an influx of diverse or invasive species. Regarding potential escapees, I used to be horrified about new species appearing, but if the climate is changing there are going to be severe casualties, and many native species will be wiped out anyway. If there are fruits, for example, that are not so invasive that they will threaten native speicies in the meantime they could prove very useful in future, to feed birds, animals etc. (especially those of us at the top of the food chain). If this is the case then pristine conservation doesn't seem quite so important - pristine environments are very rare, many speicies having arived in the past millenia that were not native. Lots of birds in our area eat the berries of the non-native Fucshia Magelica that have collonised our hedgerows. Ours is a National Trust owned area of high scientific interest, but I don't imagine that these hedges will be ripped up any time soon.

    I think that the rainforrest is a good example of how human's can help to positively influence bio-diversity. Obviously, it always has to be thought about carefully, and if ziziphus are very invasive then they shouldn't be let out of my small enclosiour. The Solanum family is another interesting example - everybody grows them, and they crop up in the wild all over the place too. As long as the nightshades don't crop up in a people's salads (as they do in mine, brought in on american grain imports for animal feeds) people are quite happy to have them around, assuming perhaps, that something will put them to good use despite the toxisity of the foliage to some species.  In other cases (like the monkey puzzle tree) native habitats are now threatened by wildfires or other catastrophic climate changes, and are now dependent on cultivation around the world for their long-term survival. A tragedy indeed, but the ethical question, if you turn it upside down may yet come to be: should they be alowed to die out to make room for other species? In a case like that you might even start looking around for something, anything that might sucesfully take their place as the callamity progresses. It is a horrible dillema.

    I think that it also boils down to an existential question for us: what can we do in order to preserve the closest verisimilitude to the natural world we are addapted for and which we depend upon and love? We have forced ourselves into a position where too little is known by anyone to make boaderline judgements right now, because we are entering a period of catastrophic change. I think we can only really sharpen our eyes and ears and be ready to learn, the exception being, of course, tollerating those practices that are driving the catastrophic change itself - obviously, those we need to stop.

    So to get back to the point, yes, I agree with you Paul, forget the fat dog - it's the car that needs stopping (sorry for the shaggy dog story ending here, I couldn't resist it). :D

  • Paul B3Paul B3 Posts: 2,912
    edited September 2018
    I honestly believe this rollercoaster of destruction is an unstoppable juggernaut .
    Take Madagascar for example ; once a unique ecosystem with some of the worlds most unusual endemic species , Pachypodiums for example are being wiped out ; de-forestation and introduced species (i.e.Ziziphus)are all playing their part in this .
    The entire fauna and flora of this island is under threat from humanity and its inherent greed , plus the apparently incessant desire to procreate !
    This is happening on a global scale . Nowhere on this planet is immune from habitat ruination .
    What saddens me immensely is the destruction of virgin rainforest around the world , only to placate the ever increasing demand for Palm Oil .
    These mega-plantations are eerily silent compared to what it replaced .

    Reducing emissions is another joke ; what is the point in the UK building wind-farms , whilst countries like China are investing in a massive program of building coal-fired power stations ?

    Encouraged to buy smaller cars etc.(or no car at all) to save on emissions is loudly proclaimed nowadays ;  this is immediately negated when I think of the 'well-heeled' but exceptionally boring non-entities going abroad for no purpose whatsoever on those oversized cruise-liners .
    Apparently these floating hulks consume diesel at the rate of around 200 gallons per mile (!!!) purely for the pleasure of those with nothing else better to do.
    Standing outside in my garden at night , I see aircraft heading to and from SE England

    at the rate of one every 45 seconds on average . How needless is that ?

    I despair for the planets future ; what is the point in it all ?

  • DinahDinah Posts: 278
    Yes, I hear you. I see those things passing by in the sea on a near daily basis. They are admiring the scenery, and happily polluting and destroying it as they go along. We now have a dead zone just across the water from us, and it's getting bigger fast - just like all the other dead zones in the oceans that are spreading and joining up with one another. Aircraft? If they're not carrying weapons they are carrying those who invest in weapons in their business class, and in the ordinary class they are carrying deluded people who have been duped into flying by psychologist advertisers promising a wonderful experience - but why do they fall for it? it's a flying sardine can! Next they will be anaesthetising people, and stacking them up one on top of another for transportation. Despair doesn't cover it... I must tell you a joke before I scream...
    You spend years hoping in vain that a giant asteroid the size of a double decker bus will come along and take out your civilisation, and then what do you see coming around the corner... three at once!
  • Paul B3Paul B3 Posts: 2,912
    I empathise completely with your train of thought ; the only negative factor here is a minor rock the size of a bus wouldn't be large enough !
    The K-T impact was reckoned to be caused by an asteroid approx.7 miles diameter  ;(that's a cubic rock about the size of Everest) ,  at a velocity of around 20 miles per second we wouldn't even see it coming . There are numerous NEOs (Near Earth Objects) which pass relatively close every year ; we normally don't detect them until they've already passed by . For all our so called technology we wouldn't have a chance in hell .
    Bill Bryson describes lucidly of an impact like this ; the point beneath the impact site would be superheated in microseconds before it hit ;around 6000 degrees Centigrade ; the air couldn't get out of the way quick enough , and like the heat generated in a bicycle pump , it would get very hot very quickly !
    Vaporisation would be for the lucky ones ; imagine turning around to witness very briefly before oblivion the planets crust as a mile-high wave of utter confusion rolling towards you ; roads , churches , motorways , entire cities and fields approaching at the speed of sound ; death would be instantaneous !
    Somewhere and somehow , certain organisms would survive this ,(probably bacteria , the worlds most successful life forms) , only to face a catastrophic climatic change probably lasting many centuries .
    Geological activity would be horrendous , earthquakes , tsunamis and unimaginable volcanic activity polluting the atmosphere for many decades .
    Would I be correct in assuming that would put an end to pointless holiday travel ? >:)

  • Paul B3Paul B3 Posts: 2,912
    PS  Let's hope others on the forum read our comments ; maybe a catalyst for quite a lively debate ! ;)
    The only sympathy I have is for the loss of the planets fauna and flora !
  • NollieNollie Girona, Catalunya, Northen SpainPosts: 4,023
    I do love this forum, how did we get here from growing jujuba seedlings?  :D:) Whenever I tried to get my brother to understand and try and mitigate his (especially large) impact on the planet, he would just quote the Chinese coal fired power station stats at me.
  • Paul B3Paul B3 Posts: 2,912

    A similar thread a while back somehow had me describing the distances to the stars in miles , putting it into perspective for the benefit of those who erroneously believe that a light-year is a unit of time , and not of distance !! :)
  • DinahDinah Posts: 278
    I think, maybe a small one would be good enough if it hit just in the right place - leave a bit of the scenery. Where is good spot for a supervolcano day at the beach, anyone stopping off for caldera...???
    No, no, nothing is going to hit us from outer space like in the films, not if we all aim our Nukes at the sky at once... That is what they're for after all, right? It will all be fine, fine...
  • Paul B3Paul B3 Posts: 2,912
    The most promising scenario for a supervolcano is at Yellowstone , currently very unstable !
    The worst (or best , depending on your political alliances) would be the total destruction of most of the midwest USA .
    There is no chance of intercepting an approaching object , the only propulsion unit powerful enough were the immense Saturn 5 launchers , the blueprints of which were apparently mislaid by NASA years ago . If it were remotely possible , we would only succeed in creating (bad word , I'm an anti-theist) a multitude of radioactive impactors.
    My Doomsday scenario of earlier was for an average sized lump of rock  ; there are much , much larger ones out there .
    We're all safe as long as Bruce Willis is still alive !!!!!! ;). Remember 'Armageddon' ?

    Dinah , when you say 'hit the right place' , would Washington DC fit the bill ?

    PS  Appreciate your subtle sarcasm ;)
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