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Very interesting discussion on End of Life care - join us

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  • josusa47josusa47 Posts: 3,530
    I believe God is all-powerful, but not a puppet-master.  Everything that occurs is not the result of the will of God because he allows the people he created to exercise free will.  Most people choose, at least some of the time, to exercise it in ways that are displeasing to God.  This is called sin. The Bible teaches, and Christians believe, that in dying on the cross, Jesus accepted the punishment due to sinful humans.  If we admit our sinfulness, and repent of it in the name of Jesus, God forgives us and we get to spend eternity with him in heaven.
  • FireFire Posts: 19,092
    josusa47  Thanks for sharing your view.
  • CFCCFC Posts: 71
    punkdoc said:
    My perspective on this, probably comes from a slightly different viewpoint, in that I spent my career as an intensive care consultant.
    My greatest worry is, medicine has progressed at an exponential rate, and we now have the ability to keep many people alive, that would have died a few years ago.
    However, we rarely seem to consider whether keeping these people alive, is in their benefit.
    Many doctors I worked with, thought that if you could do something, then you should.

    It is clearly much easier for a Dr. to do something, than to do nothing, but is often, IMO, the wrong thing to do.

    In respect of voluntary euthanasia, I have always believed, that it should be the right of the individual to decide, unless they are clearly not capable of making such a decision.
    I agree with everything you say except the voluntary euthanasia bit.
  • Hostafan1Hostafan1 Posts: 34,888
    I respect the right of anyone to believe , or not believe in this " higher being " to which @pansyface refers. but IMHO religion is the most evil form of brainwashing and mind control ever devised by man, used to justify everything , including murder and war.

    brainwash
    ˈbreɪnwɒʃ/
    verb
    gerund or present participle: brainwashing
    1. pressurize (someone) into adopting radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible means.


      If you take a child from the moment it is able to understand and tell it about God, Prophets, Saints etc etc and that information is enforced by teachers, family , The State etc etc. That to me is "brainwashing"
      Nobody is born a Christian/ Muslim/Hindu? Sikh/ Buddhist etc etc , it's inflicted upon them at birth.
    Devon.
  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    Can I ask you CFC - why you don't agree with the vol. euthanasia bit? Again - not trying to be 'stirring', I'm genuinely interested, as I think many people would definitely agree, whether we're religious or not.
    I'm a total atheist, but I often hope I'm wrong, and all the people who suffer the most hideous pain and suffering [losing their children, dreadful disease etc] can find some solace in another life. 
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • Busy-LizzieBusy-Lizzie Posts: 24,023
    Learning about different religions and choosing one, or not, is not brainwashing. It's education. How can one make a choice about whether to believe in God or not if you don't know something about the subject?
    Dordogne and Norfolk. Clay in Dordogne, sandy in Norfolk.
  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    BL - I think Hosta's point is that peole are often not allowed to choose - they're indoctrinated as small children. You only need to look at the hideous 'Glasgow' situation of bigotry - inbred into people from the minute they're born to realise that it's often the case.
    I once listened to a phone in on Radio Scotland when my oldest was a baby. The man actually said that he was brought up a Protestant, and to 'hate' Catholics, and his children would be brought up the same way. Utterly terrifying. The [ normally] vocal but always sensible & responsible presenter was stuck for words and ended the conversation quite quickly. 
    My children were aware of my atheism, but as Religious education is taught in our schools, they were given both sides. They made up their own minds as to what they believed or not,  as should all humans. 
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Posts: 88,138
    I have no problem with individuals practising the religion of their choice. 

    What I do have a problem with is when the followers of any religion impose its laws and restrictions on individuals who choose not to follow it.  

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • lily6lily6 Posts: 79
    I have decided to remove myself from this forum which is a shame given its useful and mainly enjoyable content. I understood it was a gardening forum, this is inappropriate and very upsetting to have to view this discussion each time I log on to read about all things gardening. Some of us maybe recently bereaved . 
  • FireFire Posts: 19,092
    "I agree with everything you say except the voluntary euthanasia bit. "

    I am a big supporter of institutions like the Dignitas clinic. I am happy to book a slot when my time comes.
    ..........

    The old age that the UK population are reaching is throwing up so many new challenges. I have one old friend who is an only child - one parent with end stage leukaemia and the other with end stage breast cancer. My friend also has two kids under eight and a full time job. She is going crazy trying to manage it all single handed and look after her own health.

    Another friend has two parents with dementia - mother approaching the end (with stroke) and the other in the middle stages. Her siblings live in America. She will have given the best part of two decades to the crisis care of her parents.

    Both friends are in a pretty privileged position, fairly well off, work at universities. If you're hard up or in debt and have so many fewer options, I can't imagine the strain.
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