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  • Hostafan1Hostafan1 Posts: 26,647
    Hosta, I had this "discussion" with a young religious girl at work, asked why babies are born in famine/war/drought, why would a God let inocent children be born to die in agony, die, she said it was Adam and Eves faulty because they ate the apple, so the sins of the Father are begot on the children.
    The brainwashing clearly worded on her then.
  • DyersEndDyersEnd Posts: 730
    If you feel that euthanasia is morally wrong and you'd prefer to die a protracted, painful death that's ok and is currently an an option for you. However, if you'd prefer a bit of help you're stuffed. Surely that is unfair and wrong.
  • FireFire LondonPosts: 7,780
    "Starving to death or living in limbo - what sort of choice is that for us to make on her behalf?"

    It is harsh, but it is the reality that the doctors face every day and decisions they make every day, away from the harsh glare of the media. As I understand it, it was always an acknowledged part of the doctor's role at end of life (in the UK), to help a gentle exit where needed. It was only in the 20th century and with the onset of a litigation culture that the decisions had to be hidden.

    The religious lobby is incredibly strong, both inside and outside government, and my view is that this does have a part to play in the euthanasia policy development. As with 'opt out' organ donorship.

    My mum starved to death as her organs failed one by one, over a fairly short period of a few weeks. This was about ten years ago. I'm glad the doctors didn't ask me to make the decision, because at the time it would have freaked me out. But these kind of discussions are not openly had in our medical/media culture - so we/I was not educated as to the realities of end-of-life processes.

    A mature, adult discourse is needed nationally about these processes, but I don't think our theatre of national debate is very given to nuanced discourse or critical thinking.

  • DyersEndDyersEnd Posts: 730
    Fire said

    A mature, adult discourse is needed nationally about these processes, but I don't think our theatre of national debate is very given to nuanced discourse or critical thinking.

    I couldn't agree more but one of the problems is those who choose to not even think about death. When my husband died I had no idea whether he wanted a church service or if he wanted to be buried or cremated - he would never discuss it with me at any point during our 47 year marriage. It made a difficult time even more difficult.  I was never able to talk about end of life preferences either. 
  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Central Norfolk UKPosts: 66,339
    Towards the end of their very long lives both my parents were together in a very good nursing home which they had chosen some years earlier ... they were both frail, unable to walk and my father needed nursing care.   

    My father became quite poorly as well as being sad because my mother's Alzheimer's meant that she didn't really know who he was ... a couple of times he asked male members of the family to 'put him out of his misery' ... he was from a farming family where, in the past an ailing dog would have been helped on its way.  His GP spent some time with him assuring him that he would not be 'kept alive' when he was on his way out and he was comforted by that.  Around the time of his 95th birthday, he developed pneumonia and my brother and I were asked whether my father would want to be treated with antibiotics and we said that we knew quite absolutely that he would not.  He passed away peacefully a few days later.  

    A couple of years later my mother, then aged almost 93 and with severe Alzheimer's, was found to have an intestinal blockage which caused a severe bleed.  There is a history of bowel cancer in her family.  We were asked whether we felt she would cope with, or would want any treatment.  We knew that she wouldn't understand and would be unable to cope with invasive treatment, and more importantly we knew that she wouldn't want it.  Her GP agreed with us and she was kept pain-free for the following week or so until she died peacefully in her bedroom at the nursing home with her own things around her ... I was with her although she waited until I popped out of the room to actually take her last breath.  

    My mother had told me years ago of her experience in the late 1940s when her father who was still a relatively young man, was very very ill and  facing his third or fourth operation for bowel cancer.  He begged her and her mother not to give their permission for the operation ... in accordance with his wishes they refused to give consent for the operation ... the surgeon shouted at my mother and called her a murderer.  She carried that with her all her life ... and yet she knew that she had done the right thing.  I was happy and privileged to do what I knew she would have wanted and I know her GP agreed with me. 
    “I am not lost, for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost.” Winnie the Pooh

  • Lily PillyLily Pilly Central southern Scotland Posts: 3,845
    We watched mum suffer dreadfully with Motor Neurone Disease. We all vowed we would never let our own families watch us die like that. However, there is nothing you can do

    We spoke to our lawyer and organised things as best we could but there is No Guarrantee your wishes will be carried out.

    The Right to Die will come one day, it has to as we can’t afford to keep everyone alive. 
    In my work I watched expectant young girls being persuaded to keep their babies when they really didn’t want to and had no support  The saddest thing was a few years later I would see these babies as unloved troubled children. What the heck?!

    i dont  think much has changed

    Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
    A A Milne
  • Hostafan1Hostafan1 Posts: 26,647
    We're now relegated to page 5.
  • Joyce21Joyce21 Posts: 15,489
    My daughter and I discussed OH's pain free cancer with the consultant and all agreed that there was no point doing anything given his Alzheimers. His second last day in hospital my daughter (a medical consultant) asked for him to be started on morphine to ease his breathing. This was done and the dosage was increased as necessary giving a peaceful end. 
    SW Scotland
  • pansyfacepansyface PEAK DISTRICT DerbyshirePosts: 18,007
    Sorry of it’s all very raw still, Joyce, but I wonder what the course of action would have been if your daughter hadn’t been qualified enough to know to ask.

    A peaceful, painfree end to life was good.  It should be within everyone’s expectations, I think, but I know it’s not.
    Apophthegm -  a big word for a small thought.
  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Central Norfolk UKPosts: 66,339
    When used wisely and with compassion morphine is a wonderful thing Joyce ((hugs))
    “I am not lost, for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost.” Winnie the Pooh

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