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Climate change



  • micearguersmicearguers Posts: 625
    I have no clue what you mean when you say that I label historic and current scientific data flat earth. Climate change is an inconvenient truth. The science is rock-solid. Climate change denial is a fringe activity, pursued by people such as Nigel Lawson who are given media time due to a warped sense of false equivalence. For an exhaustive list of arguments used by climate change deniers, visit for example this page. This goes into all sorts of things, including historic trends, volcanos, and whatnot. However, typical climate change deniers cling to conspiracy theories or will dig up some new strange argument, and if that argument is knocked down they will move to the next, without ever addressing the realities of what greenhouse gases do and how much we produce of them. This is what I call flat earth debate. It is pointless, it is not driven by facts, not driven by a desire for truth. I do not know what is the cause. Fear, possibly, or a lack of knowledge about the scientifici method. Although, in this case, the science is a lot simpler than say Maxwell's field equations or Bohr's model of the atom. After well over two decades of occasionally joining these 'form your own opinion' debates, I have indeed lost all shreds of patience. We would do well to heed the lessons of Easter island.
  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,185
    Part of the problem is finding the right label for it. Call it global warming and people scoff and point out it's cold outside. Call it climate change and people scoff and point out the climate has changed since the last ice age or whatever point of reference they choose to work from. Call it anthropogenic climate change and people scoff until they can find a dictionary to find out what anthropogenic means.

    Whatever you call it though it is only part of the problem. Habitat loss, species extinctions, soil depletion, over population, food security, plastic polution etc etc all need as much attention as climate change.
    Tradition is just peer pressure from dead people
  • FireFire Posts: 18,146
    edited July 2018
    WE, it's true, but I often observe that those who dismiss anthropogenic climate change also argue that the other problems are hysterics of the liberal elite. I have seen them labelled on this forum as 'middle class angst'. If a problem is acknowledged then it is said that scientists will find a way to solve it all in a few years. Or that humans are like any other species and have the right to make the most their domination: We have won and the rest of life should suck it up. Or that none of it really matters because there have been climate shifts and mass extinction events before and life continued. Ho hum. The earth will keep turning. You know all the arguments. No responsibility is taken for our actions. If there is an issue, it's someone else's fault and someone's duty to resolve, so let's all go down the pub. Crisis? What crisis?

    I am not privy to everyone's comments on this thread, so, no doubt, the above is a partial response.

  • micearguersmicearguers Posts: 625
    @wild edges I agree entirely with your second paragraph. The first however, I am not so sure whether the label matters that much. It is the scale of the thing, the enormity, and the inconvenience; in that respect Al Gore nailed it. The naysayers have, I think, hit a seam where they exploit anti-establishment sentiments. Scientists are easily viewed as distant, cold, and creepy because that is how they are often stereotyped in popular culture; creating some awful laser or virus. Some have argued that scientists themselves are partly to blame as they should communicate better. However, a platform is not easily reached, and when you do, Nigel Lawson who knows absolutely nothing worth knowing about this gets equals air-time. Go figure.
  • herbaceousherbaceous Posts: 2,318
    Isn't the problem with a scientist's PR to do with being thorough, taking time, doing the work none of which is 'interesting' to media fed people who have developed a short attention span through a variety of social media?  Sorry I think I may be on the wrong thread, this isn't Curmudgeon's corner is it?

    Going to keep going now I've started, it still annoys me when serious scientific endeavour is reduced to " scientists now believe that too much _____(insert item here) is bad for you" when usually they are releasing mid-test data in order to secure more funding to find out if whatever is bad for you.

    OK, all done.
    "The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it."  Sir Terry Pratchett
  • Nanny BeachNanny Beach Posts: 8,669
    I actualy never said I deny "climate" is changing, there is no absolute proof, you cannot believe everything you read in the papers, everything "experts" say on any subject. Do we believe those in government, we were given a vote, which a lot of us took part in, more than 2 years down the line, you all know what is happening!!!herbaceous, that seems to be "it" one day, its butter, I expect one day they will decide that sugar is good for you.  When I was in my teens, my late Father, who was an engineer refused to have aerasoles in the house, because he said we were increasing greenhouse gas and depleating the ozone layer which kept us safe from radiation from the sun.  Wa listening to an "expert" saying on radio 4 yesterday, we must all stope buying diesel,petrol,cars, go for electric, what about all the material used in electric the lithium for the batteries, the scrap of all the old cars where is that going? Seeing the film Wali, I reckon the earth will be a giant rubbish tip one day, I try not to throw anything away, unless it is completely broken and unrepairable, my Husband kept our washing machine going for 15 years, I use a basic Nokia, dont wast money and resources getting a new phone every 6 months, he doesnt possess one at all.  Most of my furniture is second hand.  There is only so much we can take from the planet because it eventually runs out. 
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